I think it's worth noting that these "feminine" virtues are present in the best male characters as well. (Aragorn for example, and Samwise is another solid one.)
In my view, Hollywood's morality is so out of whack that they are so blinded by the character being female that they think it's okay to give female characters no virtues, likely because many of them are immoral people who are writing out their fantasies where they get to "punch back at the patriarchy."
They would be much better off if they weren't allowed to know the gender of the character they were writing until after they had done the writing. The characterization wouldn't be amazing, but it'd be better than what they're doing now. (Many modern female characters would be considered toxic if they were men.)
"[...] feminine virtues [...]" I apologize but I have to address this immediately. I never described the virtues above as "feminine" and neither did Jared Trueheart in his guest post.
Loyalty, Patience, Compassion and Fidelity are virtues common to both sexes and we would hope that good men would have them (such as Aragorn, Samwise etc.).
The thesis in both articles is not that these are “women’s virtues” but instead that they are the virtues by which we gauge how good a woman is at being a woman.
This virtue framework is also amoral; a woman could be loyal, patient and compassionate, and demonstrate fidelity to her husband who is completely evil and support his wicked schemes, yet still be considered good at being a woman or womanly. Obviously, we would not say she is a good woman in the moral sense.
So why are these virtues called the “Domestic Virtues”? Because these virtues are of crucial importance in the context of hearth, home and family. Marriages and families are built on and thrive because of these virtues. Fathers and mothers should be compassionate to their children and be loyal to on another.
Fair to say, it is good for a man to be loyal, patient etc. however, no one uses these virtues as the yardstick to measure how good a man is at being a man or to gauge how manly he is.
Aragorn and Conan the Barbarian are manly men and very good at being men but only one has the virtues of patience, compassion and fidelity. Both share what Jack Donavon describes as the tactical virtues -Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honour - and this is what defines them as men among men.
With my explanatory ramble complete, I completely agree with your comment. For example, if in Captain Marvel, Captain Marvel was a man and he stole a motorbike from a lady biker who said to him “Nice scuba suit. Ah, lighten up honey. You got smile for me”, audiences across the west would be mortified.
Wow. This was a fantastic read. I've watched ATLA multiple times, never could get into the sequel series, and didn't bother with Dragon Prince. Now I'm glad I didn't because the main character sounds like the Cliche Young Adult Heroine. Maybe that's what they were going for? Man, now I want to take a look at some YA and see if any of their heroines measure up.
The description of the domestic virtues made me think of the Tridevi in Hinduism. Saraswati, Lakshmi, and Parvati all show a great amount of loyalty, fidelity, and compassion. It also helps that they are goddesses of generally quite good things, like education, wealth, and motherhood. And birds, because Saraswati is often seen sitting on a white swan or goose as her mount.
I also recently published an article on Avatar, but it was about what I felt was a missing piece in the story.
This jibes well with a feeling I have reading fiction for some time. Trying to figure out what the complementary virtues are for female characters in story are against their male counterparts. I suspect since we usually end stories soon after the zenith of action, or drag the same characters through tens of books or hundreds of episodes, the womanly virtues get played out as the front and center role less. It also just plain doesn't matter if you never see that next generation of characters, and the torture and abuse of one set of characters continues to time immemorial. Some stories like this is fine. All of them? Please just let Peter Parker marry, have kids, and retire...
My example to mind being:Terry Brooks with his Sword of Shannara series, where each different set of books covers different eras of his setting, and often sons and daughters take the place of their fathers and mothers. At the end of each story, they retire from being the main character into their more mundane or pastoral life. Be they an innkeeper or king.
In a story I continue to mull, but not write in as much... I've two characters who are starting out at basically the same point, both running away from their parents, for virtually the same reasons... but the girl feels like she has an extra hill to climb.
I suspect a thing I'll have to contend with, is the character will suffer a definite deficit, and some other flaws, but will have a chance at being arced to redemption in time.
I think it's worth noting that these "feminine" virtues are present in the best male characters as well. (Aragorn for example, and Samwise is another solid one.)
In my view, Hollywood's morality is so out of whack that they are so blinded by the character being female that they think it's okay to give female characters no virtues, likely because many of them are immoral people who are writing out their fantasies where they get to "punch back at the patriarchy."
They would be much better off if they weren't allowed to know the gender of the character they were writing until after they had done the writing. The characterization wouldn't be amazing, but it'd be better than what they're doing now. (Many modern female characters would be considered toxic if they were men.)
"[...] feminine virtues [...]" I apologize but I have to address this immediately. I never described the virtues above as "feminine" and neither did Jared Trueheart in his guest post.
Loyalty, Patience, Compassion and Fidelity are virtues common to both sexes and we would hope that good men would have them (such as Aragorn, Samwise etc.).
The thesis in both articles is not that these are “women’s virtues” but instead that they are the virtues by which we gauge how good a woman is at being a woman.
This virtue framework is also amoral; a woman could be loyal, patient and compassionate, and demonstrate fidelity to her husband who is completely evil and support his wicked schemes, yet still be considered good at being a woman or womanly. Obviously, we would not say she is a good woman in the moral sense.
So why are these virtues called the “Domestic Virtues”? Because these virtues are of crucial importance in the context of hearth, home and family. Marriages and families are built on and thrive because of these virtues. Fathers and mothers should be compassionate to their children and be loyal to on another.
Fair to say, it is good for a man to be loyal, patient etc. however, no one uses these virtues as the yardstick to measure how good a man is at being a man or to gauge how manly he is.
Aragorn and Conan the Barbarian are manly men and very good at being men but only one has the virtues of patience, compassion and fidelity. Both share what Jack Donavon describes as the tactical virtues -Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honour - and this is what defines them as men among men.
With my explanatory ramble complete, I completely agree with your comment. For example, if in Captain Marvel, Captain Marvel was a man and he stole a motorbike from a lady biker who said to him “Nice scuba suit. Ah, lighten up honey. You got smile for me”, audiences across the west would be mortified.
Wow. This was a fantastic read. I've watched ATLA multiple times, never could get into the sequel series, and didn't bother with Dragon Prince. Now I'm glad I didn't because the main character sounds like the Cliche Young Adult Heroine. Maybe that's what they were going for? Man, now I want to take a look at some YA and see if any of their heroines measure up.
The description of the domestic virtues made me think of the Tridevi in Hinduism. Saraswati, Lakshmi, and Parvati all show a great amount of loyalty, fidelity, and compassion. It also helps that they are goddesses of generally quite good things, like education, wealth, and motherhood. And birds, because Saraswati is often seen sitting on a white swan or goose as her mount.
I also recently published an article on Avatar, but it was about what I felt was a missing piece in the story.
Fragmentary and scattered thoughts follow:
This jibes well with a feeling I have reading fiction for some time. Trying to figure out what the complementary virtues are for female characters in story are against their male counterparts. I suspect since we usually end stories soon after the zenith of action, or drag the same characters through tens of books or hundreds of episodes, the womanly virtues get played out as the front and center role less. It also just plain doesn't matter if you never see that next generation of characters, and the torture and abuse of one set of characters continues to time immemorial. Some stories like this is fine. All of them? Please just let Peter Parker marry, have kids, and retire...
My example to mind being:Terry Brooks with his Sword of Shannara series, where each different set of books covers different eras of his setting, and often sons and daughters take the place of their fathers and mothers. At the end of each story, they retire from being the main character into their more mundane or pastoral life. Be they an innkeeper or king.
In a story I continue to mull, but not write in as much... I've two characters who are starting out at basically the same point, both running away from their parents, for virtually the same reasons... but the girl feels like she has an extra hill to climb.
I suspect a thing I'll have to contend with, is the character will suffer a definite deficit, and some other flaws, but will have a chance at being arced to redemption in time.
These two articles were a great read.